July 3 Meetup Notes

Experience at events

    Ed - only went to first one - most interesting was energy - sign that people who have interest are listened to, good turnout of Metrolinx.  How do Metronauts fit w/rest of stakeholders, making it holistic, curious about timelines, how formal after RTP

    Joey - both events - contrast was interesting.  TO - public transit, bikes, battling cars; Hamilton - more reliant on cars.  Curious what does Metrolinx do once conferences are over - paper?

    Jed - agree w/Joey - TO only - incredible creative output - genesis - but what's next? innovative for bureaucracy, but how does it have a legitimate voice?  they could forget about it.  Tension between unconference and rigid system.

Mark M. - both events - different - TO people experienced w/ unconferences, go things going.  Hamilton picked up quickly. 

Claudio - 1st unconference - refreshing - small group, whatever comes up.  Hamilton - "suburb" came up multiple times, not a coincidence, an indication.  Waiting for outcome - works with a small group, felt secure.  Concept was to generate ideas.  The only thing missing is more of it.  Students were passionate, others may feel "if you pay me I'll work."  Comes down to altruism.

Dave D. - 1st unconf - found fruitful for letting ideas come - uneasy about website having sessions without notes - not for posterity?  How will Metrolinx use it? Didn't know experts would be there, wanted speakers to respond to.  Take ideas and grow, develop them.  Scary moment of two bureaucracies clashing - can Metronauts faciilitate these conflicts?

Andrae - both events - healthy - contrast between 2 events.  Concern is what's next.

Karen - ditto.  From outset confused about what Metronauts was separate from Metrolinx.  Who's sponsoring and why.  Ideas can be independent and outside scope of Metrolinx.

Mark K. - my role is to be that interface - have to get $ to make it happen but keep it from being overly directed.  Unconference format is good for this, online is trickier.

Antoine - liked ability to generate own topics - might be opportunity to prepare a little to identify helpful resources - avoid 15 minutes of platitudes.  Achieve balance w/spontaneous nature.  Encourange moving around.  Topics not clearly posted near each group - need that.  Need to know what they are talking about.  Generate materials per topic, identify interests ahead of time, wealth of info out there.

Bob - TO - wasn't sure how it would scale up - delighted.  Good cross section, GTA perspective, good job covering a lot of subjects, robust discussion, effort into wiki, liked having Metrolinx and TTC there.  TTC forgets customers, good to see Metrolinx taking lead in getting feedback.  "A" - well done, passion of participants.  Someone would have to prioritize topics in advance.  Could be more formal but served its purpose.

Laurence - TO - very good for first event.  Free for all leads to generating ideas.  Been to other cons but never get ideas.  Could have opened some eyes.  Moving on, stick w/unconf. concept w/ more themed, smaller groups.  Topic tracks so we can build ideas to present in more detail. 

Kate - both - great for comments - how to mature conversation into action, concrete.  Close together - wish had more supply materials - maps, markers and drawing paper - make it a workshop.  Great conversations.  Let's start acting, play around with it - take advantage of being together.  Hash something out. Facilitate between conflicting agencies - objective citizens and enthusiasts role for Metronauts and Metrolinx.  Mission statement.  We can play a role.  Manifesto?

Dave F. - both - 2 concepts - Hamilton, not seeing selves as part of whole picture. How far are they going to go?  Where is the boundary? Metrolinx more open at Ham than TO - more willing to listen and accept.  Are they prepared to change their thinking?  Goals for Metrolinx - need to rethink on papers, but how far will they go.  Some topics will get rehashed.  Handout of what we've discussed, can you add on?  Need to get to meat.  Lots of conflict out there.  Want transit agencies to be there. Commend TTC for having their people there.

Locke - recording in groups - number of people w/divided attention - get a pro to take the notes so no one is divided, very rapid fire.  Went to Metrolinx event at ROM - brought up govt as impediment - jurisdiction, need interaction.

Andrew - what about York or Durham?

Mark K. - third to be in Durham, trying to pick date

Andrew - having confs in summer is bad, what's the rush?  A few more months won't hurt anything. What about a poolside bbq?  Concerned about board, need push in Durham and York, show Roger Anderson that people in Durham care about transit.

Karl - Ham - enjoyed, but very little notice, surprised so many people attended.  Couldn't finish map wanted to bring.  Interesting points brought up.

Mike - liked it, good first experience, spontaneity and creativity - not a lot of discussion on website, can be more active, need to connect w/other discussions.

Mark K - less happy w/online, want to continue conversation - how do we bring it up a level?  inclusive for newbies as well.  A lot we can do.

Misha - one small thing - normally at these events people start off thinking about telling ppl in charge what to do, then figure out they can do stuff themselves.  This didn't really happen here, not surprising, it isn't obvious what to do.  Want to plant that seed - this isn't exactly consultation.  Maybe sometimes we can find solutions independent of Metrolinx.

Mark K - ground crew notion - closest idea to that.  Advocacy element.  Pre-existing groups.  Is there something here that is not yet being advocated for?  

Introduction of White Paper.

    Mark K - technical material.  Has real impact - these are the bases of decision-making.  How approachable are they?

    Dave F. - need to use layman terms - average Joe doesn't understand.  Wnat to get from here to there. 

    Mark K - Wanted an activation phase - there's an RTP scheduled for release at the end of the month - white papers together. When first sat down w/ Rob, he said can we put the RTP on a wiki?  We could, nothing prevents it technically.  Now talking to Metrolinx about it.  Make it wiki friendly.  Community can make edits.  Would take a lot of work to set up, but would that be something enough people would engage with.  What are the implications - focal point of conversation.  Concrete expression of future.  Draft ---> final doc in full - window of opportunity to influence.  Do ppl know wikis, how to collaborate?  Wikikpedia is that, but watched by people around the world. Are there enough people to realize wisdom of crowd.

    Bob - Steve Munro has distinct topics - break down into chapters so people can relate to something.  Keep themes together.  Likes wikis.  More focused, more enthused people will be.

    Antoine - Metrolinx already puts docs online in chunks and allows comments, kind of a different animal.  Would people actually have dialogue or make sniper-type changes?

    Laurence - traditional discussion forum suffice?  Links to it?  Ppl might be afraid they are making permanent changes.  Comfort level - tech savvy friends not even comfy changing things.

    Kate - forum - our own website isnt' active.

    Laurence - it's not a typical board.

Mark R. - before that - accessibility of document itself.  how is it going to be communicated?  Whose job is it to make it accessible - chunks?  language? visuals? Are people they want input from comfortable with the document?  Take it and make it a graphic novel - employ someone to make it chewable.  How does that distillation happen?  Wiki not as accessible.

Dave D. - touched on this - what does Metrolinx need?  they don't seem to need researchers, critique of data, critique of papers - who objects to better travel times?  What feedback - from users on their plan - how do these interact?  Map that's clickable?  Zoom into your area - what would you like to see at this Transit Hub?  Specific questions to answer.  needs are hard to get at w/o asking the right questions.

    Mark R - how to present it?

    Andrew - Sim City - turn maps into that

    Mark K - would be really interesting to use methods like an alternate reality game - not feasible within timeframe

    Claudio - finer detail of map w/socioeconomic data

    Mark K - powerful idea if impractical

    Ed - media will simplify focus on issues like funding plan, what's Metronauts' mandate?  function to get comment on text version but bring people who are educated on how to get input in, need a little push.  Lot of things we don't know.  Focus on funding, project planned.  Maps seem  like they mean it will happen.  Even after draft RTP - how much input.  Bring people in, more interactive the better.  Comments will be heard.  Link to Metrlinx, add to existing discussion forums.

Community Evangelist

Mark K - person interacts online and other places, community on behalf of org and vice versa.  Must acknowledge ppl, say I heard that, thank you and an action.  Developed set of guidelines, Metrolinx bought in at Metronauts.ca but hasn't acted on it.  Destination site is a dead idea.  Go where the conversations are already happening.  Arguing for this.  Needs to be person who knows material and has similar values to community, not nec. a communications specialist.  this is critical.  If you saw someone like this online, what would that do? 

Ed - noticed Andrae doing something like this, David Harrison. Comm. guy at TTC - Brad Ross - hard to tell what he's bringing beyond commenting and reading - before we didn't know if they were watching

Mark K - put aside some money for people to take on a community moderator role.  Takes time.  Inviting you to take on that role - if you want to, contact us.  If you are already doing so, maybe you can get $ for your time.  Andrae is not on staff w/ Metrolinx, no mandate to do this.  Brad Ross - is he representing himself as TTC?

Ed - TTC person.

    Mark K - Metrolinx still needs to have that capability.  What info do people need etc.  RTP is basis but not the only thing we have to refer to.  Will keep arguing for this.  Create content, be active, bring Metrolinx to these things. 

Mike - how separated?

Mark K - Someone needs to be out there everywhere - community of interest around transportation.

Claudio - could get more granular - ideally, want Colleen involved

Mark K - an opportunity to model for planning, transform how we make policy decisions

Andrae - great idea, continue - people on forums are thankful for the best info they can get

Mark K - brokering info

Andrae - 3 key things - authentic representation, consistency, transparency - I am a rep of this agency

Dave F - 1% of population will get involved unless it is in their neighborhood.  Sometimes miss information in forums.  UrbanToronto, so much info, you can lose things.  Focus individuals on particular topics.  How to get other 99% to buy in and understand what's going on.  Pat Eales petition, what's happening with that now?

Mark K - Guerilla marketing - when there's something we think the public needs to know, what kind of interacitons could be mobilized?  

Claudio - need a button to push

Mark K - a hook

Claudio - biggest hook is environment, gas prices, food costs.  Buy in.  Enough turmoil, use it.

Dave F - York region stakeholder meeting - transit marketed to middle and lower classes, upperclass doesn't care.

Claudio - gas does go up, house values depreciate

Mark K. - people are saying events are good start but need to advance conversation. need tools and materials. continue to argue about online space, continue conversations. be aggressive. if anyone wants role over the next few months, lets' figure it out.  will send message to contacts that community wants to do this - needs to be someone to talk to online.  needs same as events.  next event - will put out date August 9 - help organize, give more structure, more effective.  another full-day event.  toronto island?  beer and bbq?

Short discussion of getting decisionmakers from transit agencies, "celebrities" to events, and if not, someone from their offices.